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In the comments to last month’s post on a strange exchange at the World Series of Poker, Linda wanted to know my thoughts on whether it’s okay for Christians to play poker. I’ll share them below, but before I do, keep in mind 5 things:
I’m not even sure poker is a sport. But they show it on the four-letter network, so why not?
Yes, I THINK I’m right. If I thought I was wrong, I would change my opinion.
No, I don’t KNOW I’m right.
I try to use the Bible for my definitions of right, wrong, and sin. If you think the Bible is crap, you’ll think my opinion is crap.
This is only my opinion, feel free to disagree.
Having said all that, here’s my stance on Poker, fleshed out in Q&A style with fictional veteran reporter Quentin Query:
QQ:Did you see U23D yet?
PFB: Yes I did, and it was unbelievable. But please, stick to the topic.
QQ:Sorry, so is it a sin for a Christian to play poker?
PFB: In every instance? No. But it might be in some cases. Just like it might be a sin for a Christian to have a beer, a cigarette, or a third cheeseburger in some instances. Unless the Bible speaks specifically against something (which in this case it doesn’t), I believe a Christian must discern based on Biblical principles and the Holy Spirit within them. Contrary to what some Christians want you to believe, there really aren’t hundreds of laws to follow in Christianity, Jesus’ life and death fulfilled the law (Matt 5:17) so we don’t have to. Instead, He gives us His Spirit and freedom, not to do whatever we want (Romans 6:1-2), but to enjoy freedom (gal 5:1) and to serve Him, not as slaves, but as friends (John 15:15).
QQ:Poker, beer, and cigarettes? Doesn’t sound like a typical small group gathering to me.
PFB: In my opinion, poker, alcohol, and cigarettes are not inherently evil in and of themselves. I find nowhere in the Bible where those specific things are called out as being evil and off-limits for followers of Jesus.
QQ:So you’re saying it’s ok for Christians to be addicted to cigarettes, alcohol, and gambling?
PFB: Did I say that? No. The Bible speaks clearly against drunkenness (Gal 5:21). It also warns Christians against being greedy (1 Tim 6:10) . It talks about not being “enslaved by anything” despite “things being lawful” (1 Cor 6:12). It also talks about physical discipline with regards to your body being important (1 Tim 4:8).
QQ:So make up your mind then, are these things okay or not?
PFB: I believe they are okay in moderation, as long as your spouse is okay with it (providing you are married, of course) and your own conscience is okay with it. (I didn’t mention the Bible here, but as I said before, if something is addressed specifically in the Bible, then that trumps everything else.) I’m not saying this is a definitive list of how to decide if something is okay for you (in case i left anything out) but it if the Bible, the people you are accountable to , and your conscience are okay with it, then I think you’re in a good place.
QQ: So let’s get back to Poker. If Poker is okay, but only in moderation, how can it be okay to make a living doing it?
PFB: Let’s take Daniel Negreanu, who is a professional poker player and a Christian. Poker is Daniel’s job. If I believed that poker was inherently wrong, then I would believe that as a Christian he needs a new job.
For example, I believe pornography is inherently evil, so i think any Christian working in the porn industry needs to find a new job. (I’m not talking about the XXX church guys, who make a living ministering to the porn industry, I’m talking about actors/directors/producers/etc.)
But since I don’t believe Poker is evil (because I don’t believe the Bible speaks against it, as I said earlier), I think one must use their brain and their conscience to decide if it’s right for them.
Compare playing poker for a living to a “normal job” like being an engineer. Neither are inherently evil, but both can be abused and can become a source for our sinfulness. If the engineer alienates his family because he puts 80 hours a week into the job to make more money, to me that is sinful. If the engineer obsesses about the job during every waking moment, and it becomes more important to him than loving people and loving God, to me that is sinful. I think those same things can be said for Poker.
Now, is it easier for greed to sneak in if you’re job is Poker? I think so. Income isn’t fixed for poker players. They win money by playing well and catching breaks. So I think poker, as a career path, might not be a wise choice for a lot of people. But I don’t think it is absolutely a sinful career path.
Daniel Negreanu is a smart guy with an innate ability to calculate odds, analyze numbers, and read other people. He couples these talents with preparation and hard work, and has been able to be successful in it. There are many who are not successful.
QQ:Yeah and when he wins, other people are losing money. Sometimes a lot of money. Isn’t that wrong?
PFB: Why would it be wrong for him to better at his job than his competitors? When you get a promotion over another guy in the office, is that wrong? When your company’s bid gets accepted over another company’s, is that wrong? When you sell something on eBay for more than you bought it for, is that wrong? Almost every transaction in every workplace involves people spending time, energy, and money for something in return. Some ventures are riskier than others.
Some will argue that poker is based mostly on luck, but it’s not. Luck plays a role, of course, but it is a game of odds. Skill absolutely comes into play. And I can make an argument that luck plays just as much of a role in every other job out there.
QQ:Well, forget about the professional for a minute. What about the guy who spends $100 a month playing in his weekly poker game?
PFB: Again, if you believe that there is nothing inherently wrong with poker, than he’s in the same boat as the golf nut who spends $100 a month on greens fees, the woman who spends $100 a month on her scrap-booking hobby, and the tech geek who spends $100 a month on the latest gadget.
Each one of these folks can be sinning if their hobbies go against the authority/accountability in their lives or their consciences. If they begin to love golf, gadgets, or poker more than they love God and other people (which, granted, isn’t easy to quantify) than they can be in sin as well.
QQ:You keep saying Poker isn’t evil. Doesn’t the Bible say that gambling is a sin?
PFB: Does it? I don’t think so. The Bible never mentions the word “gambling”. There are plenty of websites that try to tell you why gambling is a sin. But their arguments, to me, hold little water. Read here, here, and here to see if you agree (the last link makes the best arguments of the three, but I still don’t buy their arguments). They all talk about loving money, stealing money, greed, deception, addictions, and other things which I agree are wrong, but these things are not hardwired to gambling.
I play poker a few times a year for the same reason I go to the movies a few times a year. It’s fun. I don’t do it because I love money, or because I want to steal from others, or because I am addicted, or because I want to be deceitful. I do it because I know that for the $20 buy-in I am going to get a few hours of fun time hanging out with friends, playing cards. To me, it’s more of a “gamble” to spend $15 on a popcorn, soda, and ticket to a movie that might not be any good.
QQ:Yeah, but there are a lot people who do it for those wrong reasons: greed, addiction, lust for more.
PFB: Yeah, and there are a lot of people who weigh over 350 pounds because they eat for the same reason that some people play poker: greed, lust for more, addiction. Does that make eating inherently evil too? Should we all stop eating? What about the folks who are obsessive about running because they are prideful about the way they look or because they want others to think they are the best at it and worship their accomplishments? Just because they’ve made running into something spiritually unhealthy, does that mean running is evil? No. I hope you see the error in that logic.
QQ:I guess I see your point, but if so many Christians have a problem with it, shouldn’t that be a flag that it’s wrong?
PFB: Yeah, I think that’s fair. But I’m not going to accept that something is right or wrong just based on popular opinion. Everything is worth looking at closely. We should all be discerning things taught from our pulpits and spoken in the pews. Poker definitely has a stigma to it in Christian circles, but that doesn’t make it wrong.
QQ:Well, that’s all the tape we have for this interview. Do you feel like you’ve made a thoroughly convincing, impenetrable argument that it’s okay for some folks to play poker?
PFB: Not really. But I think what I’m saying makes sense, and I think it jives with the Bible. I’d be interested in other folks’ thoughts about this subject. I’m not trying to justify poker because i love to play. Like I said, I only play a few times a year and I’d give it up in a second if I felt it was wrong or if my wife asked me to. I just hate to see Christians creating their own laws and then thinking they’ve earned righteousness or favor with God because they keep them. Like one of my favorite musicians Derek Webb says:
“What’s the use of trading, a law you could never keep - For one you can, but will not get you anything.”
Opinions, thoughts, criticisms, and insults are welcomed in the comments section…
+ The 14-18 Elon University Phoenix basketball team was one win away from an automatic bid into this year’s NCAA Tournament before losing to Davidson on Monday night. As Deadspin points out, the Elon athletic teams used to be called “The Fighting Christians” until 1999 when they went D1.
+ Cornerstone Christian Fellowship in Chandler, AZ is hosting a leadership seminar on April 18th called the Maximum Impact Simulcast. The event will include over 80,000 business professionals participating via satellite downlink in 600 churches across North America. The stage will be populated by the likes of leadership guru Dr. John C. Maxwell, former Nike creative katalyst Kevin Carroll, author Andy Stanley, and ESPN analyst Dick Vitale. The event will be hosted by CBS sports analyst Spencer Tillman.
+ Michelle Campbell was told she couldn’t do her job last month when she showed up for work on Groundhog Day. Her job: refereeing boys’ basketball in Kansas. The reason: she’s a woman. Campbell was told she could not ref the game because it would put her in a position of authority - something that went against the policy of St. Mary’s Academy, a private religious school in St. Marys, KS. Since the incident happened, the Kansas State High School Activities Association has stepped in to intervene. The message they sent after a meeting last night: Let women officiate.
The PFB Sports Survey is a weekly feature here at Prayers For Blowouts where we throw 12 sports related questions at some of the most notable voices among Christian authors, pastors, musicians, and dragon slayers to see if they like sports as much as we do.
1. What number best describes the role sports play in your life on a scale of 1 to 10, where 1 is “i have absolutely no interest at all” and 10 is “My friends refer to sports as ‘Baal’ because I have an unhealthy obsession bordering on idolatry”.
SI: Three. I like watching baseball with my husband. The rest doesn’t matter that much to me.
2. Rank your 3 overall favorite sports.
SI: Pro Baseball - College football - College basketball - Amateur snookers
3. What is the one team that you root for more passionately than any other, and is there a team that you hate, maybe a little too much?
SI: I LOVE(D) the Yankees, I lived in NYC for five years. My husband is a Dodgers fan, and I ask myself why? They’re a mediocre team. They haven’t done anything admirable for years. They don’t deserve his love and loyalty. But if I ask that too much he might start wondering what admirable things I’ve done to deserve his love and loyalty. So while I don’t “hate” the Yankees, I don’t root for them. And now that we’ve got Joe Torre, I can cast my un-earned loyalty to the Dodgers.
4. Do you play fantasy sports?
SI: Why would a woman play fantasy sports, when she’s got Lifetime TV? I don’t like any ‘fantasy,’ it’s a waste of time. But if a woman is desperate enough to waste the valuable moments of her yet-unwrinkled life to a fantasy, at least waste it on something where you can see a hot guy with his shirt off, paying attention to a lady instead of a ball.
5. What is the most memorable sporting event you have ever attended in person?
SI: Meadowlands race track with my then-boyfriend. We won $100 in a trifecta. It’s memorable because everything that went after that was a loss. And what was I doing dating a guy who bet on horses?
6. What is the best highlight and/or worst lowlight of your sports playing career as a child or as an adult?
SI: In fifth grade the school bully, Kristen Shanahan, asked me to let her win the 50 yard dash because she was feeling bad about herself and needed a boost. Kristen had bullied me consistently for two years. Now she was confiding in me that she had a low self esteem, and asking me to let her win. If I did, she might be nice to me for a whole week. When we got to the race track I couldn’t do it. I ran my best and beat her.
She kept bullying me but it was worth it.
7. If you could change one thing about sports, what would it be?
SI: Ban HGH in MLB retroactively and get Barry Bonds’s record erased.
8. Do you have an opinion on Christian athletes who, without being prompted, talk about their faith in post-game interviews?
SI: Yeah, go for it. Why not? It’s their moment.
9. High school gym class…your favorite 45 minutes of the day or the source of countless nightmares and embarrassments?
SI: High school track was a blast because of the cute guys in short shorts.
10. Sports are often the whipping boy of pastors and clergy because so much passion, money, time, and energy is poured into them. Do you think this criticism is valid, or are sports okay as a diversion from the stresses of life.
SI: Everyone needs a hobby. We all need to relax, and men love competition. They could also go after women and their quilting circles. That can be as addictive as sports. Except with quilting circles you get blankets at the end.
11. If you had to compete against other writers, in which of these 5 competitions would you have the best chance of winning? 5-mile run, 18 holes of golf, free throw shooting contest, arm wrestling match, or a game of bowling.
SI: Five-mile run. I trained for a marathon once!
12. What is your favorite sports movie of all time?
SI: “Pride Of The Yankees,” the story of Lou Gehrig. When I was a kid, which was a long time ago, local TV stations would get the rights to a film and air it every night for a week. And then it was gone. I must have seen “POTY” five nights in a row, every year, for the first ten years of my life.
I also loved Chariots of Fire. Yes, track is a sport!
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You can click here for an exhaustive (but not exhausting) list of everyone who’s been featured as a PFB Sports Survey participant.
If you’d like to be considered for the PFB Sports Survey, or know someone who should be, send along a name and email address to prayersforblowouts(at)gmail(dot)com.
I got an email from MCBias the other day asking me if I had seen the Charles Barkley video yet (click over and watch it if you haven’t yet - it’s a political interview Barkley is doing on TV in which he rails against conservatives and has harsh words for Christians). I told MCBias I hadn’t seen it yet, and after watching it I asked him what he had thought of it. This is the exchange that followed:
PFB: I’m watching the video now. What were your thoughts on it?
MCB: My initial reaction to the video was disinterest. I read its description as Barkley calling conservatives “fake Christians”, and to me personally, that didn’t seem to be that inflammatory. At times, it does seem like conservative politicians wave the flag and Bible around election time, and then desert those constituencies later on. I thought that was all Barkley meant by that statement. But then, I watched the entire video when I had more time, and I was a little angry. Sure, Chuck looks awkward and somewhat pitiable on that broadcast. But I’m sure it would come as a shock to historical saints if “not judging” is the pinnacle of morality! All Christians should vote Libertarian by Chuck’s logic. What did you think about what Barkley said when you watched the video? Was it truly offensive, or do you think he just spoke without thinking?
PFB: Maybe I was just really confused, but it seemed to me like he was calling out two separate groups. Was he calling out non-Christian conservatives for pretending to be Christians or was he calling out Christian conservatives for being hypocrites? Or both? I guess that’s why I wasn’t very offended by it, because I was more confused than anything else.
As far as Christians being hypocrites, yes they are. We all are. I don’t think any of us live up to the standard of morality, ethics, and holiness that we’d like to. The problem has always been that Christians (and most folks, for that matter) find it easier to point the finger at someone else than at themselves. Personally, I’m trying to get better at that.
On the other hand, if Charles is ticked off at the way some conservatives and Christians have tried to marry the Republican party with Jesus, then I’ll join in with him on that. I think it’s an affront to Jesus to say that He would have voted along Republican party lines, or any party lines, for that matter.
I don’t think Charles spoke without thinking, I’m just not sure what, exactly, he was thinking. Do you think it will hurt his public perception (and eventually his chances of running for office) or will people just chalk it up to Charles being Charles?
MCB: I have to agree with you that I too was confused at first as to what he really was saying. I believe he was calling out Christian conservatives for being hypocrites. At first, I agreed with his statements; certainly Christians should not be both “judge and jury”, and Christians can’t be hypocrites the way we have been at times. I agree!
But the end of his comments ruined for me. Saying that Christians are the most hypocritical people in this country? That we’re not forgiving at all? And he certainly doesn’t understand the full meaning of that judging verse. Christians can say that the actions of another person are sinful; there are some common standards of sin that we can agree on. Without that, we can have no law in society or religion, because there are no common standards that we can agree on. Now, of course, it’s a matter of vigorous debate if those standards exist in reproductive processes or sexuality, and if so what those standards are. But he sounded too much like he resisted any common standards whatsoever. Plus, I thought that the “they can’t do anything to me, I don’t work for them” line showed that Charles’ brand of “not judging” is not based on a concern for the feelings of others, but more out of a desire for independence from outside interference.
I think it will hurt his political chances, because it’s too easy to lift the “conservatives are fake Christians” soundbite and use it in negative attack ads. I think that Charles does have some good things to say, but that he unfortunately doesn’t have an “off” button once he has said those good things. Then he keeps on speaking and reveals himself to be just as biased as those he is trying to correct. What do you think the proper Christian response is to this type of critique from outsiders?
PFB: Whatever our response is to something like this, it has to be in love. If we put up a blog post about it, let’s not rip Chaz a new one and call him names. Let’s argue our points with humility and sincerity. Let’s see if there is any truth to what he said, and see if we can apply it to ourselves.
Same goes for conversations you might have with friends or co-workers over the comments. It’s a great opportunity to show that following Jesus is about admitting our inadequacies, which reinforces our need for Jesus. Yes, we should defend ourselves when other people speak things that aren’t true, but truth without love is just a lot of noise. There is some truth in what Charles was saying, but i think he took it way too far.
If you were offended by it, forgive him and move on. If you want to counter his points, do so with the right attitude.
What about you, and final thoughts?
MCB: I think that Christians need to take criticism well, because you never know if God can be using someone else to speak to you. Before Charles went too far, he had good points about avoiding hypocrisy and not being judge and jury. Also, it’s not loving your neighbor if you ignore him. However, sometimes Christians can be a little too eager to absorb criticism from people whose only goal is to stir up trouble. The tough part is identifying the motives of the person challenging us; the words themselves mean little in some ways compared to the heart attitude.
In the end, watching other blogs cover this story, I think I learned a little about the hearts and beliefs of my fellow bloggers, ha. That teasing aside, this was good practice in our constant need to filter the good out of our encounters with those who don’t agree with us, while ignoring/forgiving the evil or offensive part of the interaction.
Not on Facebook yet? Well, now’s as good a time as any to join. We’ll be doing our NCAA Tournament Bracket Contest on Facebook (Here’s our specific group), so if you want to participate, you’ve got to add your face to the book.
Sorry about the downtime over the past 24 hours. Apparently the server had some minor outpatient surgery taken care of, but we’re back online for good.
Speaking of good, we still need 3-5 folks to complete our PFB Fantasy Baseball League. If you’re on the fence about playing fantasy baseball, give it a shot. It should be a lot of fun. send me an email at prayersforblowouts(at)gmail.com
Finally, as a gift to you for your patience while we were down, here’s a list of 10 signs that you might be taking your love of sports a bit too far. (If I happened to be writing a book right now, this would probably be in it.)
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1. Have you ever referred to ESPN as religious programming?
2. Have you named your dog, your kids, or your wife after a player on your favorite team?
3. Has your pastor instituted a “No Sports Prayers” policy during altar calls because of you?
4. Have you ever used the “notes” section of your bulletin to write out mock starting lineups?
5. Have you been archiving those mock starting lineups in a locked, fireproof cabinet for the last ten years?
6. Have you gone through stretches where morning devotions are replaced with daily readings and memorizations from the team’s media guide?
7. Have you painted your hated rival’s logo on the bottom of your toilet bowl to improve the overall bathroom experience?
8. Do you have trouble getting into the spirit of the worship music at church without your foam finger?
9. Have you ever worn a long-sleeve shirt to church to cover up body paint?
10. Do you bring your own communion glass to church, complete with a team logo etched onto the side?
If you said “yes” to any of these, you might want to reevaluate things. You’re this close to ending up on the bottom of one of those crazy soccer riots.
I stumbled onto this today and couldn’t believe I had never heard of it.
It’s an organization called “In the Zone”, whose mission (”To help men discover and maximize their Godly potential.”) lines up with just about every other Christian Men’s organization ever formed. While there “Who We Are” page mentions nothing about sports, most of the folks who are involved have some sort of sports background. In fact, their banner image on their website has rotating quotes from Roger Staubach, Lou Holtz, Mike Ditka (picture circa 1985), Mark Richt, Loren Roberts, Tom Osborne, and Spencer Tillman.
Founded by Dr. Joe Pettigrew and Kyle Rote Jr. (who was an outstanding soccer player and now owns a successful sports agency), In the Zone held 5 Events in the Southern U.S. in 2007, but has yet to schedule any dates for 2008. They are partners with teh Fellowship of Christian Athletes, among others.
I found the organization through this article, which lists sports personalities that were expected to appear at some of the events held last year. Among them were NFL players Mike Minter and Patrick Ramsey, ESPN personalities Chris Mortenson and Mike Gottfried, and Illinois football coach Ron Zook. The article quotes Mortenson as saying:
“When I first heard about In The Zone, I wasn’t sure I wanted to hear more - commitments scare me. I’m glad I got over the fear – there’s no question God quickened my heart and opened my eyes to a great opportunity. We get to talk about our real Christian life in a sports-like setting? That’s too good to be true for a guy like me. Sign me up.”
Raise your hand if you had any idea that Chris Mortenson was a Christian. Yeah, I had no idea either.
If you’ve ever been to one of these events, or know anything about the organization, I’d love to hear more about it. One thing’s for sure though, they need a new video on their front page. Those NFL clips are over ten years old. The Buccaneers in those Orange uniforms? Yikes.
The PFB Sports Survey is a new feature here at Prayers For Blowouts where we throw 12 sports related questions at some of the most notable voices among Christian authors, pastors, musicians, and busboys to see if they like sports as much as we do.
Today’s spotlight is on Scot McKnight, who, as a junior in High School, was capable of high-jumping over Luol Deng.
Scot is a widely-recognized authority on the New Testament, early Christianity, and the historical Jesus. He is a professor, speaker, and author of more than 20 books. His new book, “40 Days of Living the Jesus Creed”, releases in late April . His blog, JesusCreed.org, has been ranked by Technorati as the #1 site for the Emergent Church.
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1. What number best describes the role sports play in your life on a scale of 1 to 10, where 1 is “i have absolutely no interest at all” and 10 is “My friends refer to sports as ‘Baal’ because I have an unhealthy obsession bordering on idolatry”.
SM: 6. Sometimes there is a really good game on TV and I have something to read, etc., and I choose the latter. I prefer sports, like golf, that permit me to read and watch at the same time.
2. Rank your 3 overall favorite sports.
SM: 1. Golf - great TV sport for me.
2. MLB - we love to watch the Cubs
3. NCAA Men’s Basketball - though I tire of the pace and lack of good passing
3. What is the one team that you root for more passionately than any other, and is there a team that you hate, maybe a little too much?
SM: The Cubs. The NY Yankees.
4. Do you play fantasy sports?
SM: No. I feel the same way about card games and board games - too much luck involved. I don’t see the attraction to Fantasy Sports.
5. What is the most memorable sporting event you have ever attended in person?
SM: Final night of Olympic Track and Field in Atlanta.
6. What is the best highlight and/or worst lowlight of your sports playing career as a child or as an adult?
SM: Highlight - High-jumping 6′9″ as a junior in HS.
Lowlight - Failing to reach the finals in the State track meet highjumping as a junior.
7. If you could change one thing about sports, what would it be?
SM: DH in baseball, definitely. (Ed. note: I’m assuming he wants to get rid of it, being an NL guy)
Also, Congress should break the MLB Players Union so all drugs can be tested.
8. Do you have an opinion on Christian athletes who, without being prompted, talk about their faith in post-game interviews?
SM: Not as long as it is done with some integrity and intelligence.
9. High school gym class…your favorite 45 minutes of the day or the source of countless nightmares and embarrassments?
SM: At our high school we did not have to attend HS gym class if we were on a sports team.
10. Sports are often the whipping boy of pastors and clergy because so much passion, money, time, and energy is poured into them. Do you think this criticism is valid, or are sports okay as a diversion from the stresses of life.
SM: Yes, this can be a fair criticism. Sports are a diversion but can readily become all-consuming.
11. If you had to compete against other writers, in which of these 5 competitions would you have the best chance of winning? 5-mile run, 18 holes of golf, free throw shooting contest, arm wrestling match, or a game of bowling.
SM: 18 holes of golf or FT shooting. (I once made 144 in a row!)
12. What is your favorite sports movie of all time?
SM: Hoosiers.
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You can click here for an exhaustive (but not exhausting) list of everyone who’s been featured as a PFB Sports Survey participant.
If you’d like to be considered for the PFB Sports Survey, or know someone who should be, send along a name and email address to prayersforblowouts(at)gmail(dot)com.
Here’s an interesting read for you while you’re trying to make sense of what happened on LOST last Thursday. It’s an article from the archives, published in February 2005 on msnbc.com, that talks about the role of Christianity in collegiate and professional sports. Some stats I found interesting…
“The figure commonly cited by those who work with them is that about a third of the players in the major American team sports are born-again or evangelical Christians — a little more in the NFL, a little less in the NBA and significantly more in NASCAR. Grant Teaff, the former head of the Fellowship of Christian Athletes who is now executive director of the American Football Coaches Association, has said as many as two-thirds of college football coaches are devout Christians.”
The article also talks about athiests in sports who feel like they can’t be open about their views because of the generally pro-God culture in locker rooms. I think the same thing applies to the rest of the world though. Most people, in general, have a negative connotation with the word “athiest”.
But back to the numbers, one-third of all athletes seems a bit high to me. Only because the number is nowhere near one-third at any job I’ve ever worked at. What do you think? Is this number high or is there a reason that many athletes are spiritual?